Q: How do you think the government can effectively tackle the current wave of insecurity?
Insecurity is currently high but it didn’t start today. President Muhammadu Buhari is really trying to make the country work but the legacy of the previous government is an unenviable one. The legacy of corruption, in a way, is responsible for insecurity. You cannot divorce corruption from this problem of insecurity because funds, which ought to have been used to build infrastructure that would attract investors, were wasted by some persons and the youth have become despondent and despondency has forced some to resort to crime. But I believe President Muhammadu Buhari is working hard and he will get it right. He has given the police the order to flush out the criminals, which is the first step. The root cause of this problem and other problems will be better addressed in his second term. There will be more infrastructure; more jobs will be created, which will give the people hope.
The President is working very hard to fight corruption and corruption is also fighting back. Insecurity problem is really a serious problem. There is a portion of the Bible that says, ‘When the foundation is destroyed, what can the righteous do?’ Whatever is built on this type of shaky foundation will not last and that is why President Buhari is taking his time to lay a new foundation.
Q: The Buhari administration has been fighting corruption since he came to office. Why is insecurity increasing four years after?
All of us must be involved when it comes to security matter. For instance, in Zamfara, a lot of people have been killed. We cannot leave the job to the President and security agents alone; everybody has to join this fight against criminals. We must assist the police to do their job.
The fight against corruption is a serious one and corruption has been fighting back and has not stopped. That is why I keep saying Buhari needs our support and prayers to succeed. To make the country free of corruption is a task that must be done and all of us must be involved. You are all aware of the ongoing revelations in some of the corruption cases – how funds meant to buy equipment were diverted and all that. We need to be praying for our leaders and we must be disciplined. I see a lot of indiscipline among the younger generations. I think Buhari is very much on course judging by the foundation which he inherited but it is not going to be a very easy task.
Q: Many people are clamouring for the establishment of state police now. Is Nigeria ripe for state police?
I believe Nigeria is ripe for state police. It is part of devolution of powers which we have been clamouring for. But this cannot happen overnight. Nigeria is not a place where one can take a decision without thinking properly before taking it. I believe when power is devolved, states will be able to do some things and Nigeria will be better for it. I served in the First Republic as a member of House of Representatives and I was a senator in the Second Republic. How much did I earn then? But things have changed now. People still steal public funds and that is the problem the nation is facing.
Q: Nigeria is said to be wasting so much money on political office holders, especially lawmakers. Should the nation consider part-time legislature as a way of reducing cost?
That could be considered. When I was in the House of Reps in 1964 and the Senate in the Second Republic in 1979 and 1983, money was not the motivating factor. It will be a nice idea if we take a second look at the way we do certain things. In our time, the love to serve prompted us to come out and contest elective offices and that was why the nation had competent and honest people in offices then. Part-time legislature was done before and it worked; so, there is nothing wrong if we consider it. The interest of the people should be paramount; it is only then that we can get competent people to serve in public offices.
Q: Do you think the parliamentary system of government is better for Nigeria than the presidential system that we have in operation now?
In the first Republic, we practised the parliamentary system and in the Second Republic, we practised the presidential system of government. I think the parliamentary system of government is better or let me say I prefer it to the presidential system of government. It is cheaper to run than the presidential system of government. But I think the system was bastardised when the military came into government. That mentality is still there. I will go for the parliamentary system of government. We need to save as much as we can save now. Parliamentary system of government is less expensive; it is very cheap and that is the kind of system that we need now.
Q: Many have expressed worry about the length of time it takes to prosecute corruption cases. Do you think Nigeria needs a special court to try these corruption cases?
Certainly, we need special courts to try corruption cases. If you look at some of these cases, they have been on for between five and 10 years. We need special courts and we should make sure that all legal hindrances to effective war against corruption are removed. President Muhammadu Buhari has tried so much in the fight against corruption and we should commend him for most of the things he has done. He has instilled fears in the minds of the people against corruption now. Although corruption was planted and nurtured for many years, within four years, Buhari has done so much. He has recovered stolen funds. His administration has secured conviction of some corrupt persons and we have to commend him and support him so that he will be able to push harder in his second term. I believe he will do better in anti-corruption fight and other areas in his second term.
Q: Do you think judicial reform is needed for the anti-corruption war to yield the desired result?
We should make sure that whoever will be nominated as a judge is not a corrupt person. Judges should be carefully selected to avoid putting corrupt persons on the bench. One cannot have a corrupt person to dispense justice. There will be no justice; there will be no fairness. Only people of integrity should find their way to the judiciary. It is unfortunate that the former Chief Justice of Nigeria found himself in this situation, but we must make sure that people with proven track of integrity are the ones dispensing justice. If we put the right people there, Nigeria will soon become a shining example for other nations to emulate in Africa. Nigeria was a great country in the days of Obafemi Awolowo and others.
Q: Many governors do not conduct local government elections once they assume office. What do you think is the reason for not wanting to conduct council polls?
Local government elections, just like the federal elections, should be held at regular intervals. They should not be subjected to the whims and caprices of the powers that be. The local government is an important tier of government because it is the government closest to the grass roots. People should be allowed to elect their leaders at the local government level and they should not be denied this opportunity. I think this administration is trying because to replace something bad with good is not easy. What the government is doing now is rebuilding the entire structure. This may also continue to happen until we rid the country of corruption.
Q: What was your experience when you contested elections in the past?
I contested many elections. I contested governorship primary election against Chief Adekunle Ajasin in 1979 and nobody demanded a dime from me. Ondo State had 17 local government areas then and there was an electoral college of 51 people. At the end of the day, Ajasin had 32 and I had 19. I went and congratulated him. If today you have an electoral college of 51, there are politicians who can bribe them with N1bn each. It was not so in our time. All the elections that I contested – local government, House of Reps, senatorial – nobody demanded any money from me. But some politicians want to turn the Federal Republic of Nigeria to Federal Republic of Corruption. We must not allow them to succeed; we should resist them. You journalists have a duty to assist the nation in this regard. When you see the truth, say it; but some people are now pandering to the whims and caprices of corrupt politicians and this will not help the nation. When we have a good government, everybody will benefit, including journalists. It will be safe for you to practise your profession. There will be security and people will live a better life.
Q: It seems education is losing its attraction in the South-West and the region, which used to be at the forefront in education, is going down. Why is this so?
If you sit down and look at the situation very well, you will know that this is not a problem that is peculiar to the South-West alone; it is all over the country. When you see the quality of our graduates now, you will be amazed. There are many reasons for this. But like I said earlier, there is a high level of indiscipline among the younger generation unlike what we had in the past. We must address this problem because education is the key to development. I met a graduate sometimes ago and I asked him 7×9; but he said he could not tell me the answer without using the calculator. An elementary school pupil in those days would recite everything without blinking.
Corruption has eaten deep into every sector and that is why the situation which we find ourselves now is very bad. There is corruption in the education sector; and it is there from the early stage. There are parents buying exam questions for their pupils who want to sit for primary school leaving certificate and secondary school examinations. Some hire undergraduates to sit for WAEC for their children. What do you think such children will grow up to become? We must tackle the issue of corruption from all fronts and God will help us. Corruption has become an irremovable mountain because as the present administration is fighting hard to remove the mountain, some corrupt persons are also fighting desperately to make sure it becomes impossible. Like I said, by the grace of God, the forces of good will triumph against the forces of evil.
Q: There are divisions among various ethnic and religious groups in the country. What do you think we need to do to bring Nigerians together in order to build a more united nation?
Let us trace this back. So many reasons have been said to be responsible for this and we have to all work together to make this country one. Buhari is working slowly and steadily to bring Nigeria together. People of goodwill, all over the country, should also come together to make sure that Nigeria is united. This is a collective task. Everybody should play a role in this. It doesn’t matter where you come from. You must stop hate speech, lack of tolerance and other things that divide us. When I was in the Senate, we worked together with my colleagues from the North and other parts of the country.
Q: Why is Afenifere no longer speaking with one voice like before?
It is my wish and prayer that Afenifere should come together again as one. We should become an indivisible entity and collectively, we will do better. We all want the nation to be better; so, we should be together. All Yoruba people should come together. Nigerians should come together and work to build a prosperous and united country. The APC won in Ekiti, Ondo, Osun, Lagos, Ogun states and lost in Oyo but it doesn’t matter which party each individual belongs to, we should come together to make Nigeria one indivisible nation.
Q: As a strong follower of the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo, do you think Awolowo would have supported Buhari if he were alive?
I am an Awolowo man and I am supporting Buhari; that is what I know. I know Awolowo will work with anybody who has the interest of the people at heart. I have always been an Awo man and I have never joined any other political party ever since I joined politics. I am an Awo man and I am getting along with Buhari.
Q: What then endeared you to Buhari?
He is a man of integrity. Buhari is an incorruptible man and this is a man that contested elections three times and did not give up. He has integrity and this is known to many people. Look at the other candidates that contested against him, I won’t mention names. Can you compare any of them with Buhari?
Q: But is it not true that Buhari marginalised other parts of the country apart from where he comes from?
I don’t believe that. We have a federal cabinet where every part of the country is well represented. Yoruba is well represented; Igbo is well represented and other ethnic groups. Nigeria is a very difficult country to govern. No matter what you do, people will always find a reason to criticise you. People will complain. But in any case, Buhari is about to be inaugurated for his second term and most of the challenges, which the people have noticed, will be overcome.
Q: What do you want Buhari to do differently when his second term starts next month?
He knows the type of people he had worked with and I believe his second term will be a much better one. There will be more abundance, not only for the Yoruba people, or Hausa or Igbo but for every Nigerian.
Q: Should the Presidency be zoned to the South-West in 2023?
Let’s leave that one for the parties to decide. I don’t want to preempt anything. Whatever the people want is what we will have. Yoruba people have paid their prize and we will be united. But whoever becomes the President and others who hold other public offices must strive to put the nation first in all things. Everybody, irrespective of religious or ethnic group they belong to, must see Nigeria as home and should be committed to its development. Doing this will make our nation great, especially on the continent. If we do the right things now, the generations after us will look back and bless us.
